Comments on Crunchy Chicken: Circumventing circumcision

I am very against circumcision for either gender, ...

2009-01-15T11:24:00.000-08:00

I am very against circumcision for either gender, and in our society there is a huge double standard. We feel that female circumcision is more painful and mare hazardous than male circumcision, and that is just not the case. It comes down to an issue of human rights. Do you have the right to make a decision to cut off the body part of a person who cannot make the decision for themselves? Do we allow parents to slice off perfectly functioning ears of infants? No. Then why do we allow a healthy and NORMAL part to be severed? It is pure abhorrent tradition. The history of circumcision is the country dates to the early 1900's and was done to prevent masturbation. My personal opinion? It is child abuse. It is LESS painful when performed on an adult, so let each man make the decision for himself.

To Anonymous above - I'm originally from MN as wel...

2009-01-12T22:08:00.000-08:00

To Anonymous above - I'm originally from MN as well. Although I don't have kids, all of my nephews (that I'm aware of) are circumcised. I asked my sisters why and I believe it was because "they wanted their sons to look like their dads".

At college, I researched male circumcision for one of my courses - however I researched it as an aspect of Dress (dress as defined in the literature also includes body modifications). The findings were really fascinating. I hadn't realized that it was really an "American" thing. I think in the earlier part of the century, it was often part of 'preventing males from masturbating' etc etc. I believe people still continue to do it primarily for aesthetic reasons (I want my child to look like his dad or all the other boys, etc etc). However, my research also suggested that it makes A LOT of money for the health industry - being one of the most common (if not the most common) surgeries performed.

I personally would not have my children circumcised. My research has led me to believe there's no medical reason to do it (religious reasons are different, of course), it's part of the US health industry scam, and more importantly, it's genital mutilation - which I find horrific.

So thanks, Crunchy, for posting about this topic so I could put my 2 cents in!!! : )

I decided not to circumcise my son who is now 10. ...

2009-01-12T16:20:00.000-08:00

I decided not to circumcise my son who is now 10. I did a lot of reserach and came to the conclusion that it is not necessary and most people do it just because everyone else has always done it. I was surprised by how outraged some of my friends seemed to be about my decision for my child. They couldn't believe I wasn't going to circumcise him, but it was really none of their business. Then a nurse came in and asked if I was going to send him to get circumcised. I told her I had chosen not to, and she seemed shocked as well. But then later 2 different doctors who were making rounds commented that they thought I made the right choice as they didn't have their sons circumcised either. They said that the trend on the west and east coasts was not to circumcise. (I am in Minnesota.) Then I felt very good about my decision. After all of the negative comments, I had started to second guess my decision. My son has not had any problems with not being circumcised.

We left our sons uncircumcised at birth, mostly b/...

2009-01-07T14:19:00.000-08:00

We left our sons uncircumcised at birth, mostly b/c their father was uncirc, but also b/c the current medical "trend" in Australia at the time was that it was best to do so.

But my husband and I divorced and he moved away to leave me to parent alone. So when my oldest boy's foreskin opening remained very small (although it was no longer adhered), and we had used steroid creams for over a year to try to fix it (no luck) - I decided to go with the paediatric urologist's advice to circumcise him. This was done under a general anaesthetic when he was 5.

I chose to circumcise his younger brother at the same time, although he had no medical reasons.

From a personal perspective, at the time of our divorce (he wasn't always so), my ex-husband was a very unclean man (by this I mean he often didn't wash his hands after pooing on the toilet, he ate food whilst sitting on the toilet, he didn't bathe regularly). This lack of attention to hygene meant that his foreskin was often full of congealed smegma and smelt very strongly. He also reinfected me with thrush repeatedly. Without going too much further, these memories have stayed with me, and I wouldn't want my son's partners to ever have to deal with such a thing. (I'd hope to teach my boys to be clean and considerate regardless of their foreskin.)

I'm not sure why other people choose to circumcise their boys, or not, but I don't think it is comparable to female circumcision at all.

Friends who work in aged care homes tell me that sometimes geriatric men are circumcised to prevent repeated foreskin infections when they are bedridden in diapers. Retired doctors tell of men in WWII jungles, with foreskin infections b/c they can't wash. I don't know what lies ahead for my children (energy descent, war, poverty, famine), but I know they won't have to face the pain of an infected foreskin.

We did not circumcise our son, even though my hubb...

2009-01-07T13:31:00.000-08:00

We did not circumcise our son, even though my hubby is.

As far as yeast infections, my mom had horrendous yeast infections he first bit or her marriage. It wasn't until she went to a more natural doctor that it cleared up. See, none of her earlier doctors even asked about my dad and whether he was intact or not. When the new doctor treated both my parents the infections went away.

Not all female circumcision is as extensive as we think it to be. A lot of them are just the removal of the clitoral hood, which I would say is exactly the same as removing a boy's foreskin. I see both as unacceptable.

As far as the fact that intact penises are "dirty", they aren't any dirtier than vaginas. In America we don't circumcise women to clear up infections, we treat them.

Well, that's as coherent as I'm going to get. Have a great day!

my first three son's were circumcised......after w...

2009-01-04T11:45:00.000-08:00

my first three son's were circumcised......after watching the third baby being cut (the first time i witnessed it) i said never again.
i will feel guilt and regret for the rest of my days for allowing it. i agree with bucky, it IS unnecessary and barbaric.
thank goodness i came to my senses and my other 4 boys are happily intact.....just the way God intended them to be

This is a really great video by Dr. Dean Edell tha...

2009-01-04T10:56:00.000-08:00

This is a really great video by Dr. Dean Edell that explains what circumcision is, why it's done, and the ethical implications.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHVvB1oHAgg

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAo1PCDtgBY&feature=related

to the poster(s) who wondered about mom "uncapping...

2009-01-04T07:59:00.000-08:00

to the poster(s) who wondered about mom "uncapping" the penis to wash it for a young boy....

NO!!!!

It's not detached from the penile head (sometimes not until "late" in childhood!)and pulling it back before it naturally separates can create adhesions and infections.

NO ONE should try to pull back a foreskin that isn't their own and isn't mobile.

Doctors frequently tell parents this, and that it will cause all sorts of problems if it isn't done, but it is "sealed" to the head of the penis, and is safer that way.

Sometimes small "pearls" can appear under the foreskin as it slowly begins to loosen from the glans, but they aren't infections, and don't need to be removed, nor does the child need circumsizing.

Cortisone cream can help if the foreskin is still not mobile by school age (yes really...some stay "stuck" well past infancy and it's normal.)

Good hygeine is important, but so is not creating a problem by trying to clean what doesn't need cleaning. Do you turn your eyelids back to wipe your eyeballs and the inside of the lids?

I'm from Canada and when my son was born two years...

2009-01-04T07:12:00.000-08:00

I'm from Canada and when my son was born two years ago the fee for circumcision was over $300 and the only doctor in town still doing the procedure was in his 80s and old school-no pain killers or anaesthetic. My ex and I had worries at the time that he might be a little miffed that he looked different from daddy and as a single mom gotta say not sure what to even do about the whole penis/potty training thing-LOL. It wasn't a religious conflict, it wasn't an aesthetic conflict, it really just came down to us thinking that it was what you did and we couldn't afford it. Now I'm glad we didn't cause he doesn't care. It's his penis and he likes it just the way it is.

For Bess,

Many Jewish parents are choosing ...

2009-01-02T16:32:00.000-08:00

For Bess,

Many Jewish parents are choosing to have a "Bris Shalom" instead of a circumcision. To read more,

jewsagainstcircumcision.org (click "bris shalom" on left)
jewishcircumcision.org (click "alternative rituals" on the left)

I'm a big fan of uncircumcised penises. In my expe...

2009-01-02T14:41:00.000-08:00

I'm a big fan of uncircumcised penises. In my experience I had fewer physical problems with partners who were whole. I ended up marrying an uncircumcised guy. It was by no means top of my list for deciding factors, but it was a noticeable difference.
I'm pregnant with our son right now and we both agree he won't be circ'd.
As far as religious reasons for it.. I understand the pressure, and I would never hate the person, but I do hate that there's that pressure. *shrug* It's not my religion, I don't think I should have a say in it. :-) I think Sharon has a point about care and handling of the child during, that does make a difference.

yellowpansy15,
I think that it's something that...

2009-01-02T12:29:00.000-08:00

yellowpansy15,
I think that it's something that parents ought to be able to choose on, and religious rites are certainly something that should continue to be allowed.
In all honesty, though, circumcision outside the Jewish faith really is "unnecessary" just as baptism outside of the Christian faith is unnecessary.
Besides that, Circumcision in the biblical sense was almost always done on baby boys, generally not adults or young men, and baptism in the Bible was only done to confessing adults and young people, not babies.

We had our son circumcised even though I was initi...

2009-01-02T12:18:00.000-08:00

We had our son circumcised even though I was initially really against it. The final decision came down to the fact that our daughter had level 2 urinary reflux (the real name is much longer and I can't remember it right now) and they told us that if we had other children it was possible that they could have the same problem. Though the circumcision was really to prevent something that might only be slightly possible in the first few years of his life, we decided that the inexpensive procedure was favorable to the really expensive repetitive rounds of testing that leaving him intact might cause.

But my initial feelings of saying that it shouldn't be done haven't really changed. I was hounded by both of my brothers and one was actually very angry at me for even considering NOT having our son circumcised.

My husband is circumcised and he's Egyptian (and yes, it is common practice there--he's a Christian), and he did end up putting the pressure on a little at the end, but let me make the final decision. We actually left the circumcision to the very last possible moment because of my indecision, but if it weren't for the hereditary urinary issues I would probably have said no to the circumcision.

I'm jewish...if we have sons, they will be circums...

2009-01-02T07:47:00.000-08:00

I'm jewish...if we have sons, they will be circumsized for no other reason than it's commanded by God that we do. I understand others' concerns. We do it as a matter of keeping an eternal covenant, politically incorrect or not.

I was shocked when I first found out a few years a...

2009-01-02T01:09:00.000-08:00

I was shocked when I first found out a few years ago now that circumcision was still the norm in the US. It is very rare now in Australia, and would mainly be done here on religious grounds. I'm sure there are a few people who still choose to voluntarily mutilate their male children unnecessarily, but not very many.
Victoria

If you decide not to get your son snipped, make su...

2009-01-01T22:32:00.000-08:00

If you decide not to get your son snipped, make sure you talk to him about his penis. My friend was uncircumcised, but his foreskin was too tight and he had terrible pain for years when he had an erection. He thought it was the norm and was too embarrassed to talk about it, so he suffered for years. He finally saw a doctor and got circumcised as a teenager (he said it wasn't that bad), but he wishes he had known that something wasn't right earlier. Be open with your children so they can talk to you about anything.

As one who has had it done, it is NOT the trauma m...

2009-01-01T21:18:00.000-08:00

As one who has had it done, it is NOT the trauma many paint it out to be. I don't remember any of it. Mutilation is WAY too strong a word, as everything works just find and feels as it should... I think (of course, please tell me if I'm wrong here).

I find all the tittering interesting. If you were to ask 1000 adult males (or 1 million - or 10 million) what they thought about their manhood, uncircumcised or not, they would tell you it is what it is, and I'm not too worried about it.

In the end, do what you think is best for your son and damn those judgemental types who think you are wrong.

I sent this post with comments to my kids with a t...

2009-01-01T19:43:00.000-08:00

I sent this post with comments to my kids with a title something like, "A new generation of moms continue the debate."

I didn't allow my son to be cut in 1982 and I still wouldn't have allowed my son to be cut if it were these times. Never did make any sense, IMO.

As usual (smile), I disagree with Sharon. There were as many of us back then as there are now who question(ed) why we should be treated as though childbirth is a disease and doctors know more about how we want to do it than we do.

We had natural childbirth back then, as well, with the breastfeeding until the baby decided not (although I did some pretty heavy lobbying for the older one to try a cup after tandem nursing for almost a year).

Most young boys in our blue-collar community were circumcised, but I was of the opinion that my son (only 1 boy in the 3 kids) would be a citizen of a broader world where circumcision was the exception). That probably turned out to be correct, as the last time he felt weird about it was when I asked him at age 7 and he burst into tears. Of course his sisters have since probably let him know of any/every uncut boyfriend they've ever had if they share half of what they've told me.

Playing catch-up here after a PC crash. Did Greenpa let that be done to HIS boys in those days? [comments sounded like he did]

I don't have sons or even children yet, but DH...

2009-01-01T18:54:00.000-08:00

I don't have sons or even children yet, but DH and I have made it perfectly clear that any boys we have WILL BE CUT. Mainly to "look like daddy" and also because I personally have never been with any guy with an uncut penis and I refuse to. If any of my boyfriends were uncut I probably would have dumped them as soon as I found out (& I know that sounds shallow).
I prefer a cut penis and I think it looks better. Eh, just my two cents.
Although, DH's mom took an interesting approach because Andy is cut, the next oldest is not, and the 3rd child isn't cut but the youngest child is. Kind of half & half.

wow. there are a couple of so so privileged points...

2009-01-01T17:55:00.000-08:00

wow. there are a couple of so so privileged points of view floating around here.

reduced HIV rates may not matter if you HAVE access to condoms.

reduced rats of urinary and bladder infections may not matter if you HAVE antibiotics.

being able to wash properly may not matter if you HAVE access to clean water.

geez.

Interesting that we somehow consider genital reduc...

2009-01-01T15:33:00.000-08:00

Interesting that we somehow consider genital reduction surgery to be different between boys and girls. A basic misandrous cultural point of view since the US circumcised girls until the 1950's. If culture is all that is required to cut part of the penis off of a newborn boy than I am afraid culture is justification of female circumcision too, since it does not affect female function, namely having children.

Today we think quality of life issue are important too. If you accept that then you should read the Sorrels study published in the British Journal of Urology where the forskin was found to be 12X more sensitive than the glans and 4 to 5 times more than anything left after a typical US circumcision. O'hara also studies the effects of male circumcision on women and found that 85% of women surveyed that had experience with cut and intact men preferred intact siting less irritation, less pain and greater ease of achieving orgasm. Come on ladies, what do you want culturally mandated good looks or good sex as nature intended.

In general we do not allow parents or doctors to amputate healthy tissue unless there is disease or injury. This is the only exception, and what an exception it is guys. As for satisfaction few men have experience with both so they have no idea. Listen to the ladies and leave your perfect boy intact, just as God or Nature made him. Just think about this: Natural Male Enhancement is leaving your son the way God made him.

Scot

attachlings: Oh, so close.

Be very careful...

2009-01-01T07:19:00.000-08:00

attachlings: Oh, so close.

Be very careful of blanket statements, as they are rarely 100% correct. "Babies are born perfect" - Not always the case.

This is a very interesting topic. I don't have an...

2009-01-01T06:43:00.000-08:00

This is a very interesting topic. I don't have any kids yet, but it is something I've considered. I have never known anyone or even heard of anyone who was not circumcised. Apparently I need to get out (of America) more. :-)

We did lots or research before our son was born an...

2009-01-01T06:06:00.000-08:00

We did lots or research before our son was born and ultimately decided against the circ. But I certainly wouldn't judge someone who chose differently. Pretty much every doctor we discussed it with agreed that it was by no means necessary, and that it would be difficult to make an argument that it was beneficial. So, given that, we decided that we'd rather not perform surgery on our newborn that doctors felt was neither necessary or beneficial.

As for the locker room issue, choosing not to circumcise is becoming more and more common. So chances are that he won't be the only "different" one.

I will confess, I did not read all the comments.
2008-12-31T22:03:00.000-08:00
I will confess, I did not read all the comments.

However, as I learned just last Sunday (surprisingly), it is basically the Jewish form of baptism. It is just a way to show that you believe in the Jewish traditions.

If people are calling it unnecessary, then I feel they are calling a religious belief unnecessary...And that is not right. True, parents shouldn't have the right to decide whether their baby is circumsized, it should be his decision when he's old enough. But under this belief, parents shouldn't be allowed to baptize babies, either.