Comments on Crunchy Chicken: The pets in your pet food

My dogs have been BARF fed for seven years now and...

2008-12-30T11:31:00.000-08:00

My dogs have been BARF fed for seven years now and I was happy not to have to worry about the pet food recalls. Both of my pets are happy and healthy on a raw diet. On the occasions that I use dog food I make sure to purchase organic pet food to limit the "crap" contained within. Hopefully raw and homemade diets will become more popular for our pets.

I'm going to try and keep this short but I probabl...

2008-12-22T21:23:00.000-08:00

I'm going to try and keep this short but I probably won't succeed because I have a lot to say on this topic.

I have a cat that has chronic renal failure - CRF (similar to what's called kidney disease in humans.) After his acute kidney failure in 2007 I researched a TON because I wanted to make sure he lived a happy healthy life.

Cats = carnivore (please do not try and feed them a veggie diet, I know someone is going to consider it after reading Crunchy Chicken's post)

Dogs = omnivore (they use the energy in both meats and veggies but typically do better with some meat)

Both cat and dog food are using too many grains and fillers as well as the nasty rendering meats.

Cats require Taurine which their bodies do not produce. Taurine is less in home cooked meals which means the raw meat or adding taurine (either buying pet food from a brand you trust or adding it to home cooked.)

I am feeding my cats organic soft food. I called the company and talked to them because I had to find out other things not on the label (some dietary needs for kidney failure.) They were very helpful and they are USDA organic so they do have to go through tests whereas "Natural" is just a marketing term that doesn't mean much.

Even more frustrating is that most vets don't know much about pet nutrition. I have a very good vet, don't get me wrong. Cats get their nourishment from protien, meat protien. Vets recommend for CRF a low protien, low phosphate, low sodium prescription food... sigh. It needs to be protien their bodies can easily use though (think of their kidney's like filters ... if they don't have the filters then what you put in needs to be purer and healthier.)

My vet expected my cat to die in less than a week after bringing him home. He has approximately only 30% of his kidneys left.

I am pretty sure that if I had fed them what the vet recommended or kept feeding them the crap they ate before (name brand expensive crap so don't think avoiding the cheap stuff will mean you're buying quality) I'm pretty sure he'd be dead.

Bottom line - research what you're going to feed your pet. Research the company producing the food.

I'm a little skeptical about the claim that labora...

2008-12-20T18:51:00.000-08:00

I'm a little skeptical about the claim that laboratory animals are used to make pet food. I've worked in both academic and industrial labs and, at least here in Canada, those carcasses are incinerated on the facility grounds as required by law. They are considered biohazardous waste.

I am currently without pets, but plan to add at least one dog and two cats when we finally buy our own place. I'm convinced that we should tailor their diets to their carnivorous biology, so a raw food/all meat diet appeals to me. Since we buy a half or quarter cow and lamb every year or so we could certainly use the less appealing (to human) bits towards feeding the pets, and I love the ideas of seeking out the local organic butcher and farmers to see what scraps they have that they would part with.

Overall a great post and well worth thinking about...

While a raw diet is what is best nutritionally for...

2008-12-19T05:33:00.000-08:00

While a raw diet is what is best nutritionally for your dog, PLEASE do your research before switching to this kind of diet. You need to find the right ratio of meat:bone:veggies:fat, and make sure that you have the supplements to make sure s/he is getting the vitamins and minerals they need. It takes time and research to do correctly, otherwise, you may be malnourishing your dog without realizing it. It's a great diet, but needs to be done responsibly!

I've also written on this subject, and your articl...

2008-12-17T12:05:00.000-08:00

I've also written on this subject, and your article was very well written and articulate.

The whole concept of rendered animal "products" in our pets food is so horrible that many people don't even believe it. I've been called a liar by more than one un-informed consumer.

This is something that should be made public. Thanks for putting the word out.

Keep up the good fight and Alter the Eco,

Adam Shake

What I find even more disturbing is that my two ye...

2008-12-17T12:01:00.000-08:00

What I find even more disturbing is that my two year old daughter loves the Costco dog food and I have caught her munching on it more than once. Now I feel physically ill. I honestly never thought my dogs were eating rendered pets. I took the lamb and rice label on the bag as gospel. Silly, naive me.

This all reminds me of Soylent Green.

"So...

2008-12-17T08:06:00.000-08:00

This all reminds me of Soylent Green.

"Soylent Green is Peeeets!!!"

Yup, we changed to Pet Promise cat food for enviro...

2008-12-16T17:27:00.000-08:00

Yup, we changed to Pet Promise cat food for environmental and ethical reasons. We can't afford organic or homemade local right now, but this brand doesn't use by-products and supports sustainable US farming, so it seems like a second choice.

My rescue dog has food allergies (corn and wheat.)...

2008-12-16T15:51:00.000-08:00

My rescue dog has food allergies (corn and wheat.) When I started searching for food he could eat I found out that most kibble, even some of the better brands, are full of stuff thats way too disgusting to feed to even a nonallergic dog. A homemade raw diet wasn't for me. Fortunately, I go to a great local pet store who is very up on pet nutruition and doesn't carry food will of DDD ingredients. They suggested that I feed my dog California Natural and I'm very happy with it. And I'm very happy with the company because during last year's dog food scare the company was very up front about where their ingredients come from - all human grade US sourced/grown ingredients. There are others out there, but CA is the one I have the most experience with.

My dogs eat costco food which I might have to reth...

2008-12-16T15:32:00.000-08:00

My dogs eat costco food which I might have to rethink. When buying some expensive canned food (while one of my dogs was on chemo)I found it had bones in the canned food. The label said the bones were slow cooked and were soft. I tested it and they were. I saved the next chicken bones in the freezer until i had enough to try to cook. I cooked them for about 20 hours in the crockpot and the bones came out soft. I mushed them up to make sure they were all soft and give them to the dogs. Being a vegetarian it was odd that i asked for the turkey bones at thanksgiving. My dogs love it and it saves it from going to a landfill.
found this link that explains how to do it with a pressure cooker. i just use bones not the whole chicken
cindy
http://www.ehow.com/how_2212987_cook-chicken-bones-stew-dogs.html

Having done tons of research on dog food and ingre...

2008-12-16T13:33:00.000-08:00

Having done tons of research on dog food and ingredients, I settled on a raw, prey model diet for my three. I do realize that the meat animal industry is wasteful, but I'm unwilling to compromise their health by making them eat an unnatural diet and I won’t impose my morals (vegetarianism) on carnivores who aren’t in a position to choose for themselves.

I've still done as much as I can to lower the impact of their diet though. I buy from local farmers who pasture raise their livestock. I buy their least desirable parts, scrap, and freezer-burned leftovers in bulk so that I can reduce their waste and lower my cost. I also stock up on dog food during hunting season. My father hunts, and he has put the word out for me within his circle of hunting buddies. So now they save the organs, scraps and tough cuts that would normally go in the trash. I do have a chest freezer to store everything, but I bought an energy efficient model to help offset that cost. It actually costs me less to feed my dogs a local, pastured, raw diet than it would to feed a high quality kibble. It just takes more time and effort.

Plus, you have to factor in the savings (financially and environmentally) of better pet health. My dogs don’t need to be bathed that often, they will never need their teeth cleaned, and have reduced need for other medical treatments (no more ear infections, anal glad impaction, etc.). I also haven’t had to use any flea/tick collars, shampoos or topical treatments since the diet switch. Those pesticides can’t be good for them, me or the environment.

On a similar note, I also have three guinea pigs. Commercial food sold for other pets is just as unhealthy and contaminated. Guinea pigs are strict herbivores and their natural diet is grasses and such. Some commercial guinea pig pellets have salt, sugar, even animal meal. My pigs eat hay and fresh lettuces/greens. I can get all of their food locally, but I haven’t found anyone growing organic hay… yet.

-Rebecca W.

Squrrl, if you make your soup stock in a pressure ...

2008-12-16T13:27:00.000-08:00

Squrrl, if you make your soup stock in a pressure cooker (they are cheap), the bones come out very soft & compost quickly.

though they do attract squirrels & feral cats, unless you bury them pretty good.

The euthanized animals come from a variety of sour...

2008-12-16T12:27:00.000-08:00

The euthanized animals come from a variety of sources, but it sounds like they mostly come from shelters and some vets. For example, Los Angeles city and county shelters send more than 120,000 dead dogs and cats to be rendered in a typical year.

The approach I'd like to see is for people to rais...

2008-12-16T12:18:00.000-08:00

The approach I'd like to see is for people to raise fewer animals and use them more thoroughly, for starters. For example, in my house we only eat local, grass-fed meat. We also eat less of it than the average household, a personal choice that's reinforced by the greater cost. But what meat we do get, we use as thoroughly as we can...for example, we buy whole chickens, the cats get the squidgy bits (which they love), and we make broth with the carcass.

Theoretically, we could smash up what's left and toss it in the compost, and perhaps we will when we've gotten better at composting, but for now our pile is neither hot enough nor well enough contained. It is, however, entirely possible to compost even large animal carcasses in a sanitary, controlled manner...the safety of this option has been demonstrated in controlled studies, and this strikes me as a simple way to turn a waste product into a resource.

Lastly, of course, I think that if we want a better product (at leas sans the plastic bits, for example), obviously we have to expect to pay more, in order to allow rendering plants to do a little more pre-processing. If greater expense means that some people reconsider the whole idea of getting a pet, frankly, so much the better.

On a slightly different note, where the heck do these euthanized pets come from anyway? I mean, I know where they come from, but are there really that many people who are just "oh, yes please, just make it go away, thanks" to the vet? My family has always taken personal responsibility for disposing of our dead pets, whether by burial or cremation, out of simple respect. To me, of course having cats eat dead cats is gross, but also, I can't help but think that if the owner of said dead cat knew what had happened to it, s/he would be really upset. Anyway, I would. Or maybe most of them come from the pound?

I used to own a boarding kennel (used TONS of dog ...

2008-12-16T10:19:00.000-08:00

I used to own a boarding kennel (used TONS of dog food), and now and then would find a piece of collar, plastic, etc. After a year with an old dog who became increasingly unable to eat commercial dog food, and then the melamine incident, I gathered up all the dog food in the house and pitched it. I started that day feeding my dogs various recipes from the internet, books (and there are lots of good ones out there), but with time I've gotten to the point where they get one raw meat/bone meal and one mostly meat-but-it-varies meal each day. The raw bone/meat is usually chicken backs and necks that I scrounge from a local upscale, organic grocery store, usually for free. The rest of their food is leftovers, sometimes eggs, sometimes dairy (which they love), and sometimes fish. They are in great condition and have sparkling white teeth. The puppy, at nine months, goes to shows now and then with his breeder, and she feeds dog food, so I feed him a meal or two each week of her brand of dog food.

All the nutrients dogs need, amino acids and everything else, is found in meat and bone. All those complicated recipes, etc, are not really vital. The main thing to remember if you go this route, is that dogs need a great amount of calcium, which in their natural, canine diets is supplied by bones. So if you don't give your dogs raw bones (never cooked; it makes them too hard and prone to splintering), be sure they are getting adequate calcium of the correct kind.

On this diet, my old dog lived another three years -- to almost 18 -- and her overall condition improved remarkably.

We've had dogs that happily would eat their Own po...

2008-12-16T07:22:00.000-08:00

We've had dogs that happily would eat their Own poop. I just can't get too worked up about anything after that. All the dogs at the barn I worked at Loved to eat fresh, steamy horse "apples" and chew on hoof trimmings. Organic pet food would be a nice luxury item but I'd rather spend the money on feeding my child organic which is far more important. The pets are all healthy and happy on Purina with a dollop of oil on their food for their coat so I'm not going to change at this point.

I feed my dog organic food and treats. I also use...

2008-12-16T04:01:00.000-08:00

I feed my dog organic food and treats. I also use natural products to give him baths, clean ears and eyes. I'd like to believe that his food is free from all that. It has to be better than normal dog food.

Oh man. I began making homemade cat food several ...

2008-12-16T00:12:00.000-08:00

Oh man. I began making homemade cat food several weeks ago to avoid all the packaging waste.

http://www.fakeplasticfish.com/2008/10/less-impact-cats-eat-homemade-food.html

Your disgusting post (why oh why do you keep doing this to us?) has given me even more reason to cook whole foods for them.

Of course, I'm adding to the carcasses to be rendered because I feed them organic boneless skinless chicken breasts out of convenience. I wouldn't be able to handle the homemade cat food every week if I had to debone several chickens. No time.

So my cats aren't eating chemicals or plastic or distant relatives, but I guess we are still contributing to the rendering industry.

This discussion about what's going into our animal...

2008-12-15T22:30:00.000-08:00

This discussion about what's going into our animal friends (much less what's going into us!), reminds me of a new product I read about recently. (Pardon the digressin'.) Some company makes biodegradable poop bags. The idea is that you can pick up the poop and flush it away. It's touted as a way to reduce plastic use. Bravo on the biodegradable part but flushing things away doesn't really make things disappear. Feces is just a by-product until you add water, then it becomes toxic sewage. So, no flushing pet poop--we've got enough problems with people poop. Now that would be a challenge, composting your own poop for a week... Yes, people do it and what a blessing it is for the water system!

Jessica,
Here's the html version of one of the...

2008-12-15T21:06:00.000-08:00

Jessica,
Here's the html version of one of the many things the ASPCA has on dogs and grapes:
http://tinyurl.com/5ud3cw
They (the ASPCA) mention that the grape no-no is a recent one, so that might be why you hadn't heard of it. I didn't hear of it until my mom's died of (organic!) grape-induced kidney failure and complications related to attempting to treat it. :-(

--Erika

Somedays I get very discouraged. Our food, our pet...

2008-12-15T19:29:00.000-08:00

Somedays I get very discouraged. Our food, our pet's food, our water, our air -everything's polluted.

My neighbors, in their 40's, with no children and no need to transport heavy or large items, just bought a huge, gas guzzling SUV, and traded in a minivan.

Yeap, discouraged. And afraid. And helpless. But not hopeless, not yet.

yUCK. Hard to say if there is an answer. I would l...

2008-12-15T16:38:00.000-08:00

yUCK. Hard to say if there is an answer. I would like pet food companies to be more forthcoming in their ingredients, and have to have a nutrition label not unlike human food. I know we be a premium dog and cat food, but hell, even the premium brands had the melamine in them. Maybe the answer is to go natural

Ick! The list of what goes in is revolting! I thin...

2008-12-15T15:09:00.000-08:00

Ick! The list of what goes in is revolting! I think I need to rethink my cat food...

Our dogs have always eaten mostly people food. Ma...

2008-12-15T13:24:00.000-08:00

Our dogs have always eaten mostly people food. Maybe it's time to move them on to all people food.

And isn't that how mad cow gets spread? What's next? Mad dog?

As for all the parts in the mix... would dogs and cats in the wild eat all those parts naturally? I think they probably would. My dog's favorite part of animals he catches is the skull and brains.

The chemicals are what makes me nervous. One of my students lost her horse last year when it ate some contaminated food. Very sad and also very preventable.

Michelle,

If you make homemade pet food, yo...

2008-12-15T13:16:00.000-08:00

Michelle,

If you make homemade pet food, you master the carcass problem by USING the carcass (at least I do). Bone broths are a nutrient-dense and age-old part of the human diet. So, after you pull the chicken or turkey or beef or whatever off the bone, you add some chopped veggies, water, salt, and lemon juice and let it simmer for a day or so until you make the most mouth-watering broth imaginable.

The organ meats (at least in poultry) can be used to make excellent and nutritious gravies, or they can be fed directly to your pet.

Once the carcass has been used for a healthy broth, then I just toss what's left into the trash. It will go the way of all other bones and eventually return to dust.

Cheers,
KristenM