Let me just first start by stating that I am a huge proponent of breastfeeding. Huge. I am very much a fan of extended breastfeeding, tandem feeding, the whole nine yards. I was even so interested in it that I took an online lactation course. The benefits of breastfeeding are so enormous that it is my belief (and hope and encouragement) that any woman who has children breastfeed them as long as they can. In fact, the World Health Organization recommends that women breastfeed their children exclusively for the first six months and then with supplementation until they are at least two years old.
Now I know that some women will argue that they can't or couldn't breastfeed their children, but for most women it is from a lack of social and medical support and knowledge that they aren't able to. In fact the WHO states that "virtually all mothers can breastfeed, provided they have accurate information, and the support of their family and the health care system."
Lest you believe that I am one of those high and mighty lactation Nazis out there, let me tell you that I had a very rough time with nursing my son. He was born premature and could not latch on and nurse orally. I had to feed him my breast milk through a tube feeding device and eventually teach him how to nurse. This, to say the least, was a very trying time and many people around me were more than apt to suggest that I give it up and go with the bottle.
As a new mother, I was getting no sleep, pumping every 3 hours and trying to feed Henry in between. Needless to say, there was at least one time where I hurled some breast pump flanges across the room in frustration. All that and with a premature baby.
So, I totally feel some women's pain with breastfeeding and love to encourage new mothers to give it a go. Even if they don't feel comfortable with it and even if they have a bit of a cultural or personal aversion to it. The health and welfare of their child is more important.
But, is the statement that "breast milk is healthier" at risk? Of course all those wonderful nutrients, antibodies and other yet to be found elements in breast milk are what helps makes a baby's brain develop into the complicated human form that it will become and that is undeniably important. However, with the increasing amounts of chemicals being found in breast milk, will we soon reach a tipping point where formula ends up being actually safer?
At this point, it is still better to breastfeed than go with formula and there are ways that a woman can avoid some of the more harmful pollutants. There are also a number of things that the government should do to keep on top of pollutants in breast milk and it is our responsibility to demand that this kind of monitoring continue not only for the health of our children but for their future health as adults.
So, while American women are finally starting to embrace breastfeeding after decades of its dismissal, let's make sure that this extremely natural, healthy and economical method of feeding our babies remains an environmentally safe and viable option for the future.
If you have kids, did you or your partner breastfeed them and for how long? What's your breastfeeding story?
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91 Crunchy Thoughts:
no kids for me but i never thought about the pollutants in human breast milk issue. i say human because i know and tell everyone that will listen about the poor baby whales and manatees and other mammals that basically drink poison milk.
i know all about the contaminates that we put into our bodies but i guess because i am not planning on becoming a mother i never thought of that issue among humans.
you raise a very interesting question and i look forward to how things pan out in the future.
My daughter breastfed from birth till she weaned herself at two weeks shy of 4 years old. When she was 2.5 yrs old, her brother was born and I tandemed nursed them until she weaned. He turned 2 today! and is still nursing frequently.
I really hope that the articles about the pollutants in BM don't discourage women to BF. There are already too many 'reasons' for women not to nurse.
We need to support our sisters in achieving that goal.
I don't consider myself a 'nazi' either but I will nurse anywhere private or public location, and answer any questions and offer help or resources to anyone who needs it, anywhere.
I don't have any kids yet but I know I'll nurse. My Mum is a huge advocate of it and so is my BF (he's an MD and told me it's something he would insist on for his children). My Mum told me though when my silblings and I were born (mid to late 80's) the pediatrician tried to advise against it! She said he basically made it seem as though she was some weirdo and she should really use formula. She tried to nurse with me but I couldn't get the hang of it and she had to use a bottle. But she nursed both my siblings. I'm just glad that when the time comes I'll have a more supportave enviorment.
I nursed my first daughter until she was 18 months old. We stopped because my number was pulled off the bone marrow registry and the doctors were concerned that the drugs they would have to give me would do bad things to my milk. It was a very sad day when we stopped nursing. (Turned out I couldn't donate for other reasons. :) )
I am currently nursing my second child and plan to continue for a long while. While I love breastfeeding and will keep going, I really dislike pumping at work. Unfortunately, my current office doesn't have a place where I can go and thus I am in the car. At least I get to listen to the radio.
I'm allergic to soy and thus can't any packaged foods. (Soy is in EVERYTHING!) So, we make all our own foods. We try to eat local and organic. I definitely pay attention to what I'm eating, knowing that my daughter will be getting it shortly. (It doesn't stop me from caffeine though it should.)
Also a huge advocate for breastfeeding. I try to encourage all of my friends and family to at least try, for 6 months. My first son was 11 months (surgery and his own weening were the stopping point for him) and my second son was 15 months (he weened himself). Hence the inability to assist those trying to ween, my kids did that on their own. Seriously I had no part in it.
I remember first hearing about the pollutants in breastmilk from the story of stuff. It's horrific, how far things have gone in messing up our planet. Now breastmilk is high in pollutants!? It's just not right
I grieved the loss of not being able to breastfeed. I felt very bad about my mothering abilities and at the loss of the bonding.
I'm saddened by the Nazi lactivists out there. They have no idea how much they hurt their sisters.
The campaign for breastfeeding began as a reaction to the forumula/bottle pushing companies, and the lack of support in the workplace. But it has become militant, uncompassionate, and a platform for superiority.
My philosophy is, breast is best, when it works
I don't have children yet, but if and when I do, I definitely plan to breast feed ... unless I end up adopting, in which case I won't be able to. :) I try to stay fairly healthy and not eat processed food, and I use non-toxic cleaners and detergent, so I hope my milk would not be too polluted, though I know there are a lot of external factors I can't control.
Breastfeeding... the good times, the bad times, the heartwrenching times. I have been through similiar things to what you describe. I think that you just won't know what you will be able to do, until you are actually there... my experience with BFing was nothing like what I hoped, imagined, aimed to do.
"...unless I end up adopting, in which case I won't be able to." You can always try relactation! (I think it's called for adoptive mothers.)
I really recommend anyone who is interested in this subject read ecologist Sandra Steingraber's wonderful book _Having Faith_ which explores the pollutants in women's bodies and milk in a really balanced, sensitive way. When she used to give talks about breastmilk pollutants, she would do it while nursing her daughter.
She includes the remarkable image of food webs with nursing infants as the highest point on the food chain - we tend to think of human beings as top of their food systems, but in fact, since our children eat our milk, with all the toxins reconcentrated through it, our infants are at the top of the pollution food chain.
I'm not convinced we are facing the end of breastfeeding, for the simple reason that formula production contains contaminants as well - the problem will continue as long as we make our environment toxic.
I nursed every one of my four sons until at least two - and tandem nursed Eli and Simon and Isaiah and Asher (Simon weaned 2 weeks before his younger brother was born). With the exception of two weeks in late pregnancy between Simon and Isaiah, I nursed quite literally for 8 straight years. In fact, oddly, my youngest toddler nursed for the last time at 2 1/2, on his oldest brother's 8th birthday. We didn't plan it, it just happened that way.
My kids ran the spectrum, from Isaiah, who was premature and had latching problems to Eli who (we now suspect) went into autistic shock at all the stimulation of the world and screamed constantly for 5 months, and nursed every 45 minutes, to the others who were comparatively easy. I miss it a little - although after 8 years, being able to take asprin without thinking about it, or eat fish is kind of nice too.
I'm not a lactation nazi by any means, but I think we do have to recognize that many nations have 94-96% nursing rates, and that odds are, we could achieve the same results. That means also that some people will have to formula feed - and there should be no shame. I'm not really sure how we'll find that balance, except perhaps by necessity.
Sharon
I was too freaked out to nurse my first or my second, but by the time I had my third, I had learned a lot more, had many friends who successfully nursed and decided to give it a try. I nursed my third and fourth, each until they were just over a year.
I loved the experience and overcoming my fears and successfully breastfeeding is something I consider one of my greatest life accomplishments. It was not without its tears and frustrations, and I am happy to not be finding a corner to nurse in today, but it was all worth it.
If you try your best and it does not work for you, then make your peace with it. Your baby needs you to be focused on him or her, whether you are nursing or not.
Although I could not have imagined it before I was pregnant, my son breastfed until he was 3 and a half. (I thought that was really old until one of his best pals nursed until his seventh birthday.)
There is something about becoming a parent that is radicalizing. The process of becoming a mother reinforces how much power we possess to create and sustain life--and it reinforces our responsibility as well.
For all those who think that they will for sure breastfeed, we don't always get what we want. My daughter was born, had her first open heart surgery at 6 days old and was in the NICU for 3.5 weeks. We tried so hard, but needed her to eat ANYTHING to get her to grow and come home. She's 6 months and still needs fortified breastmilk (with formula added for more calories). I've had to pump every drop and have come so close to quitting so many times. Sometimes things aren't so clear cut and you just have to do the best with the cards you've been dealt.
I breastfed my son until exclusively until he was 6 months old ( would have done so for longer, but my supply vanished ). Right now I'm pregnant with a little girl who I hop to breastfeed ATLEAST until she is one. I also had a rough time breastfeeding in the beginning b/c my son and I could not get the latch thing figure out and I too pumped every couple of hours to make sure he got my milk until we got nursing right. There are simple steps that can be taken by women who are breastfeeding to help reduce the toxin intake into their body... most of which we already do (http://www.nrdc.org/breastmilk/whattodo.asp) And even that loveable government of our has been working on banning some of the most dangerous chemicals out there as of recent years. I would still prefer to give my child my milk since I have some control over what goes into my body. While I can't control the air I breathe and other variables of the like, I can control what I voluntarily put into my body. I also encourage all women to give breastfeeding a try, no matter how difficult they think it may be (because it can be hard!) But our kiddos are worth atleast giving it a try :)
I breastfed for 3 months, but being a new bride and SAHM with a baby I had no clue what to do with and by myself at home all day, I got frustrated easily and quit after that. I wish I'd stayed with it and had the support I needed to continue and plan to for any subsequent children...
my daughter has eczema and bad allergies just like her dad and I wonder if any of that would have been alleviated with continued breastfeeding.
My husband and I were just discussing breast feeding last night so the timing is ironic. I'm due christmas and not real big on the idea of breast feeding although I have decided to give it a try but I must admit this is mostly for financial reasons, we'll be living off of one paycheck instead of two and the extra money for formula is more than I want to spend. I understand the benefits of breastfeeding but I can't sit still for fifteen minutes never mind hours on end and would never breast feed in public, I'm too private and would be too self conscious of it. So I guess to sum it up, I've agreed to try it, not thrilled about it but haven't written it off completely.
Breastfeeding was one of the best experiences of motherhood for me. I was never ever able to get it to work out with the twins. They were 6 weeks early and spent time in the NICU. Both boys did great with it initially, but it wore one of them out so much that he had to go back on tube feedings and spent an additional week in the NICU. This completely freaked me out and I became a pumper for 4 1/2 months until I couldn't keep up with the demand. It was hard. I think had I known about or been directed to support, I could have succeeded. Looking back I really regret not seeking support.
When my youngest was born, things turned out much differently. He nursed like a champ from the get go. I loved every minute of it. I loved snuggling up in the middle of the night to feed him and all his tiny milky smiles. I loved being able to provide for him in that way. It is just a beautiful thing. He nursed until he was 15 mos old. He is now 3 and I wish I could go back in time.
I can't imagine not being able to breastfeed due to pollutants. What a sad time for mankind if we were to get to the point that we have contaminated our environment to the point in which we could no longer safely nurse our babies.
I breastfed both of my children, my first until she was 16 months old and my second until he was 13 months. That closeness really sums up what it is to be a mother for me. I can't imagine not doing it. I'm also probably being really naive when I say I just don't believe breast milk could be more contaminated than anything else we could feed our children. With all the milk contamination scares lately, all the chemicals we pump into livestock, the pollutants in the water and grain they eat, how can this be?
You bet breastmilk is still better! And please, we all need to support new breastfeeding moms because there is still so much ignorance and so little information out there. I just saw my SIL give up breastfeeding, despite my long distance support, because by day two doctors and nurses were encouraging her to supplement with bottles and by day five baby then refused to nurse because it's a whole different tongue mechanism and nursing becomes harder for them. And of course SIL and brother were exhausted, and it's so easy to take the route the medical professionals are suggesting when you're in that state. I just could NOT believe it! And this is in Minnesota, where we're supposed to be so progressive! Ack!
I'm usually kind of a Type A impatient person, and I really credit breastfeeding with helping me chill out after my son was born. It helped me just be with him and go with the flow.
I have also read that the actual act of nursing (as opposed to drinking breastmilk from the bottle) is good for the baby - it develops their muscles differently somehow. Anyone else read about this?
I thought it was definitely easier being a SAHM, working part time, I only had to pump a few times a week. Pumping was the worst part.
Plus, with all the press about the poisonous melamine in baby formula recently, I think BF is the way to go. I loved it and was sad to wean my son at 13 months.
Oh, and I hope I don't sound like a breastfeeding nazi. I understand there are some situations in which is simply doesn't work, and then thank goodness for formula and other alternatives. However, in my SIL's case, there was really no NO reason for her to supplement except that she was tired. Tired! Everyone is tired after giving birth. And dear SIL really tried not to, and I don't blame her at all. You're supposed to trust your doctor, right? I still am in disbelief.
I, like Sharon, do think we could get many many more moms breastfeeding if we just had a massive and simple support system. I'm sorry that La Leche League can at times seem militant, because they've got the right idea of moms helping moms. I think their model is the best way, but even I a former LLL leader can get turned off by them.
I wanted to echo a couple of previous comments and share some links.
-Just wanted to reiterate that it is not just human milk that is contaminated! Breastmilk is an easy body fluid to obtain for testing; the main point is that our bodies are filled with contaminants! The benefits breastmilk confers far outweigh the effects of contaminant exposure- the contaminants are all around us, in our environment and in our food supply and our babies are exposed to them whether breastfed or not. Here is a powerful video regarding that:
http://www.seventhgeneration.com/learn/blog/ten-americans
-I agree whole-heartedly with Crunchy and others who commented on the importance of support to breastfeed successfully. Two of the biggest indicators for bf success are the mother's commitment and the father's support.
-There are many women who have success with adoptive nursing. A great resource is: http://www.fourfriends.com/abrw/index.html
-A great online breastfeeding resource is kellymom.com
I nursed both boys (not twins) for about 18 months each. Both times getting started was very difficult with much pain and bleeding. The letting down part didn't come naturally to me. I used a lactation consultant the first time and talked (cried) with a helpful friend the second time. But after a few weeks, nursing was very pleasurable and I was sad to stop.
For me: 2 wives; 3 kids; 1st kid mostly self weaned at 2.5 years, 2nd had to be actively weaned at 3 years, 3rd was easily weaned at 3 years.
Wives and I totally agreed on the long nursing time; and it wasn't always easy back in the '70's.
There is a huge gaping hole in our medical care. I have the good fortune to be close friends with a very intelligent pediatrician. When he "retired", he spent several years, working HARD, to develop - standardized BREAST MILK TESTS.
Duh. If you have medical problems, they take all kids of fluids, up to and including SPINAL, for crying out loud- to see what's wrong.
So- a mom comes in who's having trouble nursing- do they test her milk? NO. never.
Ya wanna know why? You can't get funding to do the research- all the people on the decision making boards go "ew, we don't want to put in our annual report that were RESEARCHING something to do with- you know- TITS."
I kid you not- that's why. Morons. My friend eventually gave up in despair. Meanwhile- some simple standard tests would show, how much protein; how much sugar, how much fat is in the milk; ergo whether the kid is getting enough food. Will that be variable? DUH. of course it will; and it will vary for a woman over the course of the lactation, and vary during illness. Of course.
You could also test for various pollutants; without much trouble or cost. Which would let those without troubles relax (hugely important) - and let those who DO have too-high levels of something take action.
One of the best reactions to pollutants in the milk would be- "pump-and-dump". It would not be that difficult to feed the child something else for a while- while the mother clears her body of the problematic chemicals. Which would very likely happen- fat soluble chemicals accumulate in the body, and are secreted in the milk. Flush them out- and normal breast feeding could then go on. And it would be good for the woman, too.
We are SO backward here. And the "lactivists" (love the word!) normally focus on feminist aspects, or spiritual- and just skip the science, except as a static back up for their opinions.
The science is antique- and we could be doing MUCH better.
When my son was born, my ex decided to breastfeed (we were still together at the time) and I totally supported her. Our son had trouble latching on at first and my ex felt like a failure because she was having such a hard time. We discovered after a day or so that the nurses had been slipping him bottles almost from the start. Once that stopped, he latched on fine and nursed until he was three.
Great weaning tip if you have reached the point where you want the nursing to stop and the kid isn't quite ready... put a drop of lemon juice on your nipples, worked instantly.
I had my daughter when I was still in High School. Being young and stupid and scared I took my mother's advise and didn't breast feed. People assume that formula feeding is easier. Its not. Not all formulas are the same and not all babies take to all formulas. We had a hard time finding the kind of formula that worked for my daughter. It was a nightmare.
There is a long list of things I would do differently if I could ever get pregnant again, and BFing is at the top of that list.
I'm years away from having kids myself, but my mother tells me that you burn HUNDREDS of calories while breastfeeding. It's a guaranteed way to lose the baby weight. She always tells me, "If someone is unsure about breastfeeding, just tell them how many calories they will burn!"
As a member of the national research committee for LDA of America, env. toxins are forefront on my mind. I am also 39 weeks pregnant with my first baby. Due to all the education/information I have received through LDA (and MANY other reasons), we have chosen homebirth with a wonderful certified-nurse midwife and breast feeding. We are doing everything we can to minimize toxins going to my son in the womb (yes, they cross the placenta) and beyond. -No canned food (BPA in linings, including the linings of formula cans!), organic mattress and organic/cloth diapers and clothing (due to flame retardants and pesticides), only clean, wild-caught fish, replace plastics with glass, stoneware or stainless steel (see www.pvcfree.org), etc. I was going to post the video on ten Americans from the EWG but someone has already done that. PLEASE, PLEASE watch it. Also, please check out both of these sites for more info. There is a great deal of mis-information out there. You have to look at all information and ask, "Who is sponsoring this? Is this a marketing tactic? Is this study well designed?"
Info on env. toxins and what is being done legislatively. Please consider joining your local LDA affiliate in the fight.
www.healthychildrenproject.org and www.ldame.org
Yes, diet IS very important in the health and quality of breastmilk. Brains are made of fat (lipids). Baby brains NEED healthy fats to build them well. IQ is negatively effected if (what we would consider) large amounts of healthy/clean fats are withheld from their developing brains. We are seeing a national decline in IQ that is linked to the low-fat craze. There is a big difference between clean fats and pulluted fats (think organic and grass-fed vs. commercially produced and trans-fat, etc.). Please see and read research at:
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/breastfeed.html
I have four children, and I breastfed all of them. The oldest weaned at 9 months after he bit me while nursing and drew blood in two places. That wasn't what stopped him though, it was me screaming in pain. So I pumped for him until he turned 1. The next two nursed until they were 13 months (and each time I was already pregnant again). The 'baby', who's in kindergarten now, nursed until she was 3.
I live in a university town, and was privileged to participate in a study on breastmilk. What the researcher told me she'd found was that in first time Moms very early in lactation, there were the highest concentration of yucky stuff (I can't remember the term she used, so I don't want to say "pollutants" or "toxins" and scare folks, because I honestly don't remember) but after a period of time (again, I don't recall the specifics) the milk was much "cleaner". Also, for second or third time Moms, there was much less "yucky stuff". I think the point of her study was to try to find out why breastfeeding protects against breast cancer. My conclusion was that it seemed that breastfeeding at its inception (i.e., the first baby) sort of cleaned out all the muck that had accumulated in the mother's lifetime. She did emphasize to me that much of the 'stuff' found in the breastmilk passed through the baby's digestive tract unmetabolized, sort of like when you swallow a coin and it comes back out in the same condition it went in. Anyway, I can't imagine any woman choosing not to breastfeed because she was afraid her milk was 'dirty' or something. It's a good, solid, well-designed system that cleans itself, as far as that goes. And for sure it's so much easier to nurse at 2 AM than to scrounge up and warm a bottle!
When I got pregnant I started reading everything I could about breastfeeding and lining up the resources to help me after my daughter was born. Neither my Mum nor my Sister breastfed their children and a lot of that had to do with lack of support. In my city right now there is a ton of support for breastfeeding which made it a lot easier for me to persevere through the tough times. It was painful at first but now, almost 7 months later, things are way easier. I have to say - I don't love it like some women do, but I am definitely going to keep it up until she is a year old and then we shall see where we are.
And I agree with pp Katie - I always say that one of the ways to get more women to breastfeed would be to change the advertising for it. Yes, Breast is Best works for some of us but if they started saying Breastfeed and Lose Weight! It would get a lot more women interested in doing it (sad but true). However - now that the world knows that Angelina Jolie is on board maybe things will change. :)
Michelle- Very good observations on the the concentrations of "yucky stuff" - as I said; it does get flushed out.
As a researcher, I have reservations about the idea that the reason breast feeding protects against breast cancer is the flushing out of toxins. I think it may have more to do with cellular growth management- the breast is designed to do this; and when it doesn't, some of the cellular growth information goes haywire. Long conversation.
A fascinating study from decades ago; there is a tribe of boat-dwelling people in SE Asia (Vietnam, maybe?) - where the cultural tradition is for the women to always nurse the child only on one side. Something to do with keeping the other hand available for grabbing sail lines, or something. Anyway- these women get breast cancer at a much much higher rate in the breast that is not used. Toxins were looked at; and were at essentially the same rates on both sides; and very low in this group anyway. More use it or lose it kind of thing.
I have been pregnant or nursing (or both) for all but 2 of the last 13 years. I was just 20 when I had my first child, and thought I was pretty radical to breastfeed. I nursed her until she was 14 months, when her dad and I split up and I didn't have her 24/7 anymore. My second daughter self-weaned around her first birthday. I weaned my third daughter at 15 months when I discovered I was pregnant with my 4th. I had only heard of nursing for 1 year, not the 2-year recommendation of the WHO. I was very proud of doing more than the recommended. My fourth daughter I weaned when she was 27 months and I was 5 months pregnant because it just hurt too much. I am now trying to wean my 24-month-old son because he will suckle all night long and his teeth have started to suffer bottle rot. He has to have two of them pulled out and I feel so guilty about it. If I have any more kids (which I don't plan on), I will definitely nurse them 2 years or more, if they will. I have suffered mastitis and bruising, and biting, but I don't regret it.
I read Having Faith right after I started trying to get pregnant, so I had made a lot of changes to my life & diet before I ever had my son.
But I grew up in farm country, playing on pesticide-heavy soccer fields and drinking atrazine-contaminated water. So I pumped & dumped - we started out pumping to keep my milk supply up because my son was a 34 week preemie & didnt' eat enough (we topped him off with a bottle after every feeding for the first six months). I kept pumping more than I needed because I'd seen the research that second kids get a lower pesticide load, so I figured it might lower my (first and only) kid's exposure. And maybe lower my breast cancer risk a little.
We were in the sub-ICU nursery for a week, and the nurses (almost all breastfeeding moms themselves) told me they hardly ever saw kids refuse to nurse, they were more likely to refuse to drink from a bottle. That was my experience too - first of all, one pushy nurse insisted on giving him formula instead of waking me up for a feeding, but he spit it up all over her, and also he would never take a bottle unles he had already nursed.
I weaned at about 22 months when he had a bad ear infection, after about a year of pressure from his dad - kid's underweight and the lack of measurability with nursing made his father insane with anxiety. It made me really sad. (We did nurse one more time again about three weeks later, on a very tantrumy afternoon at a big family gathering. But he didn't get much).
Something that's been really freaking me out lately - we weaned a year and a half ago and I still get a few drops of milk every month when I do my self exam, and sometimes randomly in the shower. Does anybody else have that? It's kind of scary.
i am breastfeeding my third child, who is now 3 months old. my first was a similar story to yours, it sounds like. she was born 9 weeks early and was hospitalized for 5 weeks. i started pumping as soon as my milk came in and she was tube fed for a while (with breast milk). we then taught her to use the bottle and then had to go through the difficult process of teaching her how to breastfeed. when she was three months old, she finally learned how to do it and then i nursed her until she was 14 months old. i am so glad i stuck with it, even though it wasn't easy!
p.s. I'm pretty easygoing with my advocacy, but I really think the real pressure on women is to *not* breastfeed. Nobody has to preach about it because things like having to spend *all* of your break time at work pumping are pretty daunting all on their own, and the negative pressure I got from random strangers even here in a liberal, pro-breastfeeding, legal-right-to-nurse-anywhere state was kind of crazy.
I have a work friend who is so shy she didn't nurse her first because she found it embarrassing; she did some research about the benefits but still can't quite do the boob thing, so for her second she's pumping & bottle feeding.
One of my stepsisters also didn't nurse because she was embarrassed, but she lives in a conservative little town and her doctor pressured her not to nurse (with the last one, he claimed nursing was giving the baby jaundice. Which you can learn from any random child care book is not true.) So she quit after a few weeks with all three. Which was extra bad for her, because her kids all have special digestive needs and their formula was really expensive.
The anti-breastfeeding pressure is so all-encompassing, individuals can be subtle about it, while the pro-breastfeeding people really stand out and then get called pushy.
I mean, I got more flack from random strangers about my kid's winter coat than I ever did about breastfeeding, either way, but I've never seen "old ladies who tell you your kid is freezing to death when he's not" called Nazis in random conversation.
You've got me thinking crunchy. I hope the day doesn't come where we will have to worry about contaminates in breast milk. It seems like worry over contaminates in formula (it happens) and contaminates in the water used to make the formula (serious issue) would still be a greater risk than mama's milk. At least in theory mama's body would filter out some of the contaminates from the water she drinks that her body turns into milk. I'm no expert. I do hope that any drawbacks there may be in nursing would still be outweighed by the benefits.
Oh the benefits. I nursed my girl for 18 months and it was wonderful. Don't get me wrong... it's not all sunshine and rainbows but it was good for my maternal health (and weight loss) as well as my girls health. We bonded emotionally. I could go anywhere at anytime and she always had food ready, at the right temperature and no extra gear. I think what strikes me most about breastfeeding is that is often touted how good it is for baby, but we forget that it can be very beneficial for mama as well.
Breastfed my son for two years. Best thing ever for the two of us. Wish I could have breastfed longer but he was semi-ready to stop nursing and I wanted to get pregnant again. Now I'm pregnant, due to give birth any day and am looking forward to breastfeeding again. Never really had any problems with breastfeeding-just sore nipples at the beginning and again about a year later (constant sucking). Hopefully there will be no issues with this babe.
Greenpa's comment about how hard it was in the 70s reminds me of what my Mom used to tell me.
My Mom breastfed me in 1972, against furious opposition from my father's family. Her own Mom had lived on a reservation most of her life, and they were too poor to buy formula, so her Mom was supportive, by my paternal Grandmother and Aunt were *horrified* that their precious granddaughter was getting "dirty" breastmilk.
They also thought it was dirty in the other sense - they made my mother go into a seperate room by herself when she nursed me if they were around. And when my Dad's brother went with my Mom to keep her company, they suggested to my Dad and my aunt (who just laughed) that the two of them must have been having an affair, since he was looking at her boobs.
Nursing isn't always easy (my favorite story was when I was taking a shuttle bus to the train station with my sleeping eldest (maybe 2 months old), and chatting with the elderly driver, who asked me "would you feed him if he woke up here?" When I answered "of course" the guy took off like a bat out of hell, 15 minutes before the scheduled departure, just to make sure that he didn't have to have some crazy nursing woman on his bus. ;-)), but it is a lot easier now! I'm grateful to my Mom and Greenpa's first wife and all the women who made it easier for me.
Sharon
Sharon- Miff! Miff! " but it is a lot easier now! I'm grateful to my Mom and Greenpa's first wife and all the women who made it easier for me."
hey, what about being grateful to ME? And the other guys, who stood with our wives, in public and looked like we were totally ready to beat the crap out of anybody who complained? With smiles on our faces.
:-) I'm teasing you, of course. I know you don't forget. But it is- or should be- a joint effort.
Hm. Looking at my last comment there, I can see how "ready to beat the crap out of" might be misconstrued!
No, I wasn't ever publicly belligerent; but with both wives, there were more than one occasion when my being there sheltered her from bad stuff. Usually - it would be an older woman- looking hot vitriol at us, and moving in our direction, clearly ready to verbally attack my wife for feeding our child in public.
In most cases, my wife never even knew; but I moved in between, and confronted- with my eyes, and body- the obnoxious person. Just making it clear to them that they could be getting into much more ruckus than they wanted to.
So they backed off, went away muttering, and I'm sure thrilled their friends for months with the horror story. And my kid got a nice quiet meal.
I definitely appreciate all the men who have been supportive of breastfeeding in a host of ways - from my husband to my Dad to scientists and writers who have done what they can to prove the merits of breastfeeding.
On the other hand, if I'm giving out rewards for breastfeeding or childbirth, ummm...you know how there are the Oscars and then the technical achievement Oscars, the latter being held on a seperate day, without being televised, and they do a little token mention of it at the Oscars. Well, praise for nusring is kind of like that - all the big kudos go to the person with the boobs. It isn't that the support and help aren't important, it is just that no matter how great a guy you are, it isn't exactly a "pulling equal weight" thing.
But you definitely get a technical achievement award ;-).
And male support for breastfeeding is really important, even if you don't get half the credit or do half the work. It makes a huge difference to all of us.
Sharon
Great topic, Crunchy - I also read Having Faith while pregnant or just after having my DD and I definitely thought long and hard about passing on my lifetime toxic burden to my baby girl. She nursed for 2 years. My son nursed for just over 1. I am a huge fan of extended nursing...and feel grateful that my first was such a fabulous nurser. I had 3-4 mos of mastitis and thrush in agonizing regularity with Kid 2, hence shorter duration. I read somewhere that a researcher was theorizing abt a link between autism and nursing as a result of environmental contamination. Interesting... and definitely so irritating that we don't study breast milk here like in other Westernized nations. Makes me want to run right on over to MomsRising right now.
In spite of my own desires for extended nursing, both of my kids weaned early. Henry probably would have gone on longer, but I got pregnant again when he was nine months old and my milk production slowed down considerably after that.
Of course, that didn't mean he stopped trying and he continued to nurse for another 6 months or so. I didn't even bother pumping at work anymore - I was only getting an ounce or two for my efforts.
Emma weaned herself at about a year. Every time I offered her the breast, she bit me. It didn't take too long for me to figure out she wasn't interested anymore!
So, whatever idea you have about breastfeeding, it's really up to you and the child and a multitude of other circumstances.
Oh yeah, I had mastitis too with Henry. My friend, who grew up on a dairy farm, got a great kick out of the fact that I got something he attributed only to cows.
Greenpa - without support from men or, at the very least, their tolerance, nursing would be a whole lot harder for most women.
For those guys out there a little put off by their women breastfeeding, well, there are some additional benefits that I, uh, won't go into here. But, I'm pretty sure you can figure that out for yourselves. Except for maybe Greenpa, who needs everything spelled out for him.
Sharon- how about "technical support"? :-)
I remember being totally shocked as a 10 year old, to hear my father, a straight-laced engineer, kind of casually comment that he'd like to be a brassiere designer. Because the support issues were so technically interesting. ho ho.
Tasty- "there are some additional benefits that I, uh, won't go into here. But, I'm pretty sure you can figure that out for yourselves. Except for maybe Greenpa, who needs everything spelled out for him."
LOL!! and here I was patting myself on the back for restraining my comments!! Not wanting to raunch all these nice ladies out!
Greenpa - Your mom must have been well-endowed :) There aren't too many technical challenges for those of us early on in the alphabet.
Yes, I do and don't understand why the side-benefits, besides size of course (since our society seems to be fixated on breast size), of lactating ladies is never discussed in our genteel society.
Any of the rest of your ladies want to weigh in on that one? How do you feel about the sexualization of lactation? Good, bad, indifferent?
Don't you think cow's milk has pollutants in it as well? I think breastmilk will always be the healthiest choice.
I breastfed my daughter for 4 years and am still nursing my son at 23 months. I'm so happy and fortunate to have had the support of my husband and friends.
I nursed all three of my kids. Each one for a longer time, the third till 14 months. I think my youngest would still be nursing if I had not weaned him, even now at 26 months if he see's me getting dressed he will point at my breasts and say 'oooooh that' so he clearly remembers.
I agree that the husband/partner is the biggest source of support. I would have given up many times with the first child had my husband not been supportive.
Hey D I recognize that chair!
C - Yup, that's your chair. And your cat. Actually there were two cats in the picture, but I cropped one of them out.
I remember sitting there with them feeling all homey and wondering if I was going to pay for it later with a giant allergy attack. This was taken during Lorenzo's first birthday party.
I breastfed my oldest for 6 weeks, and then I had to go back to work, so he was transitioned to formula. I didn't know then, that there were programs where you could get a "loaner" pump, or rent one for a low cost. But he didn't make a fuss about bottles or formula (nor various smushed foods when he started eating solids).
My middle one I nursed for 2 years, and my youngest.. I can't remember. At least 1 1/2 years. Not because I wanted to nurse longer than a year, but because I was sleep-deprived and frazzled and had gone through PPD and both of my younger kids viewed bottles as evil instruments of torture filled with hideous fluids (even if it was nice fresh breast milk).
I can't even say that "in hindsight I'm glad I stuck it out"; because honestly, in hindsight I wish I would have used formula from Day One. My kids would have gotten a much MUCH more mentally healthy mom while they were infants and toddlers.
Health isn't just the content of the food, but emotional as well.
I'd suggest that all women *try* breastfeeding. But if the whole experience isn't a positive one, don't feel guilty about trying or switching to formula.
Four YEARS of my life are a hazy blur, chaotic and crazy. Will the benefits of breast milk outweigh a crazy mom as the years go by?
So when people look to pat me on the back and congratulate me for nursing "for so long", I just say "well, my kids refused to wean, and reacted to bottles like I was trying to poison them". I am no heroic spokesperson for the cause of lactation.
Even if I do think breast milk is best.
Thanks for sharing this post!!!
WE did exclusively breastfeed for the first year of our daughters life ( I say we cause my husband was a huge support in our decision of doing it this way!!!)
So for 12 months our little monkey nursed on demand (so around every 1 1/2 to 2 hours day and night!!!!) I had for the first 4 month use a nipple shield (severe infection + severe cut + very determine mama = do whatever possible to nurse)
then when she was ready around 12 months we introduce normal food (no baby or purer food) Table food (her first meal was potato and steak that she really enjoyed!) So she is been eating since with us whatever we have!
Around 14 1/2 month she one day!!! all by herself stop nursing! One morning when ask if she wanted to nurse she said "no" and I ask later that day but she was done!!!
I was then 4 months preggo so my milk supply was decreasing and also my milk was changing taste so 14 1/2 months was how long we nurse!!!
My sister and I both breastfed until we were 3 years old, so for more than a year my mom had us both at her breasts.
I don't have children yet, but I certainly hope to breastfeed when I do.
"will we soon reach a tipping point where formula ends up being actually safer?"
The answer is a resounding no, not "soon," not even close! As a breastfeeding counselor and blogger, I cringed at reading that inflammatory question! It undermines any good that comes from touting the benefits of breastfeeding, and that's a dangerous thing. Any discussion of the risk of chemical exposure from breast milk (and cow's milk formula, and soy formula for that matter) should be balanced by a discussion of the known risks of formula-feeding (and not just the "benefits" of breastfeeding).
Yes there are contaminants in human milk, just as there are contaminants in the bovine infant milk used to make formula. Yes we all should be working to combat the contaminants polluting the entire food chain.
MOMS (Making Our Milk Safe) is one organization working toward that aim.
http://www.safemilk.org/
This Kellymom page has a link of resources on the issue:
http://www.kellymom.com/health/chemical/env-contaminants.html
Alana, I'm with you on the "things don't always go as planned."
Also, I don't think nursing is (generally) heroic or a huge accomplishment - my experience was that it was easier, cheaper, and required less planning/logistics than using formula.
The heroic part is getting through the first few months, when you are both learning new skills & overcoming whatever obstacles might be there (I forgot to mention my son was tongue-tied & had to have his frenulum snipped - I don't know if we would have figured it out if he'd been a term birth & gone home right away). After that, it gets a *lot* easier for most women.
I think the propaganda should be less "You should do this even though it sucks!" and more "This is a skill you have to learn and you'll get better at it, really."
I breastfed both of my children, and I think it was for about nine months each time. I remember finding it much more convenient than all the sterilising, and I was able to leave the house reasonably quickly and with quite a small bag because I didn't have to hike all the equipment around!
Having said that, it was VERY painful at first, although it got better after about the 20th feed, and both of my babies were hungry boys and after about three months not satisfied with just milk, so we combined breastfeeding with the introduction of solids at that point.
I was quite sad when I finished feeding my younger son, especially as Hubby and I had at that point pretty much decided that our family was complete. I'd definitely recommend breastfeeding though, both for convenience and for the health of the baby - my younger son had to have formula for a couple of weeks early on when I had chickenpox, and he was so sick because of the formula milk, but improved immediately I was able to feed him again.
Both my kids had a very hard time latching, 6 weeks for my first and 3 months for my second to catch on. I nursed my first for 9 months. When I became pregnant with his brother, he refused to nurse. I think it tasted different. He went onto Enfamil with LIPL. He contracted RSV at 18months and lives with severe asthma that must be treated with 5 different medications/procedures. Sam nursed for 17 months. He has never been sick, seriously, in his life. While it may simply be a difference in immune systems, it does reinforce my belief that BF gives the babies strong immunitites. I wish I was able to nurse my 1st longer and perhaps his astha wouldn't be so severe. Ah well.
Hi- I'm breastfeeding our 10 month old. I was told I wouldn't be able to BF because I had a breast reduction a long time ago and the ducts get damaged. However, I was able to BF exclusively for about 4 months and some supplementation after that when I returned to work (part time). I did try to pump at work, but as on oncology nurse it was rare that I was 'allowed' the time away from the patient care in order to pump regularly. With my already compromised supply it ended up not being worth it as I only got about 3 oz. per day---even with a hospital grade pump. So, I quit pumping at about 7-8 months. Now she nurse when she is with me and gets formula the times she isn't. It works for us. I do wish I was able to provide all the milk she needs, but I also am so happy that I have been able to provide what I am. I'll be sad when she weans...she is heading in that direction. Won't nurse unless we are at home otherwise is too distracted. Won't nurse if she is super sleepy.
Anyhow...I think we do women a disservice by not providing lactation consultants upfront and by how we treat women that are BF in public.
I feel lucky that I live in Seattle where the majority of the women at least attempt BFing and there is fairly good support for it. Except amongst employers anyhow!
I nursed both of mine 2 years each. It horrifies me to think that our milk is tainted because of the world around us. I loved nursing and I believe in it tremendously. I wonder if woman can detox pre-pregnancy in a way that might make a difference?
Mother Earth - "I wonder if woman can detox pre-pregnancy in a way that might make a difference?"
I don't think so. The toxins are fat soluble, accumulate over decades, and are then mobilized in the fat secreted in the milk. Any attempt to stimulate lactation before birth would probably mean injecting hormones- and nobody wants that for the baby.
Solution: (there IS one!) Professional- tested- wet nurses. A woman who has been lactating for a long period is likely nearly clear of these toxins, and it could be tested, and certified. So- if the woman giving birth tests high in problem chemicals- it would be easy for a professional wet-nurse to feed the newborn for a little while, while the real mother "pumps and dumps", to get the toxins cleared out. Then real mom could jump back in, and breast-feed, without the worries- or the toxins.
It AIN'T perfect. Real mom would no have the exact same bonding experience with the baby- but not nursing it doesn't mean you can't cuddle. And, the newborn would not get the colostrum, which is important. But, it could be much better to not get colostrum loaded with PCB's and phthalates.
A modest technical support suggestion. :-) Some of the lactation groups could start pushing this-
Incidentally, Raunchy Chickie- I notice the response to your request for input regarding the erotic aspects of breast feeding... a crashing, thundering... silence.
Crickets are chirping, in the margins here. Nary an innuendo, even.
:-) hey, maybe you have some home movies, to start the conversation off?
Greenpa - The silence is deafening, no? I suspect it has to do with either people not reading the comment or it really is as taboo a subject as I thought.
It does make me want to launch into another cultural anthropological diatribe regarding sexual aversions, though.
Or, perhaps it was just another "inflammatory" remark from my end :)
And, I hate to disappoint, but no home movies. Nice try though.
Aw, dang.
:-)
i don't have any children, so this is currently a non-issue. however, it is something that i've thought about. i don't think that the issue of toxins would concern me nearly as much as the idea of giving my child formula. if i have kids and they're not adopted, then i would hope that i could breastfeed for about the first year. i'm not sure what this cultural taboo is that some people are referring to. how can anyone be against breastfeeding? am i missing something here? i've always thought that it was really the only way to go. i can't imagine willingly giving up the opportunity to create a bond with your child and to give them something so natural that your body was made to do. key word: willingly. i'm not at all denying that there are many reasons why it might not work. i think that the only aversion i have to breastfeeding is the idea of doing so for several years per child. this is a personal belief here, but i don't think i could breastfeed a 5 year old. i feel like that's just setting my kid up for future psychotherapy... anyways, hopefully i won't have any physical issues with lactating, as i know that my mom had a lot of problems with it. she tried everything to keep us breastfeeding, but she just stopped producing milk after about 3-5 months (i can't recall exactly, and the duration was different for my brother and i).
on a side note, my friend who lives in vancouver recently mentioned that a woman was shopping at h&m when she had to breastfeed her child. an employee asked her if she could use a changeroom or leave the store to do so. a few days later hundreds of women came into the store, and as an act of protest, began breastfeeding their children. i thought that was hilarious :)
I only managed 5 months before drying up with son no 1. He was starving by then and rather thin so formula it had to be. Not a choice I wanted to make. I sort of copped the flack both ways - from the bf crowd and the formula crowd. (its mostly bf round here). Same thing happened with son no 2 except I gave up a bit sooner (3 months) because I could see he wasn't getting what he needed.
How to feel inadequate in one easy lesson!
I think it's genetic as my mother had the same thing happen and in her day you just didn't not breastfeed.
So please, no judgements without trial. It only makes things worse.
viv in nz
I had two children 23 months apart. I tandem nursed for a year (until the elder was almost exactly 3) and nursed the younger until he was 3 1/2 years old.
There may be pollutants in the milk, but they will be exposed to them in the air, in the water, in other foods...There are too many benefits to be outweighed by this.
So I am sitting here typing while nursing my 2 year old to sleep. His big sis weaned at 31 months, I was very pregnant at the time and she told me the milk tasted yucky. After E was born, she would latch on again every few weeks or so for a swallow or two, but she just lost interest sometime between 3 and 4. Both my kids have food sensitivities, my son's are numerous and severe. I am so glad I breastfeed as both my children would have severe medical problems had they been on formula.
I DO want to comment on the wet nursing. :) While it sounds good on paper, sorta, it is not going to work. The biology of breastfeeding is the problem. See, the milk supply is established in those first weeks and months. And there is not a pump in the world that will stimulate supply the way a properly feeding baby will. So you risk dooming a child to formula due to lack of supply on the mother's part. I could nurse the BLOCK when it comes to milk supply, but I struggle to pump, no matter what kind of pump. There are LOTS of women like that.
Other problems:
- The baby may not latch onto the wet nurse.
- Conversely, baby may not nurse from Mom if the wet nurse is all baby knows.
- You further medicalize birth by taking baby away from the mother to the wet nurse, and handing mother a cold plastic pump early post partum.
- Baby will not get colostrum, which transitions to mature milk over several weeks. Colostrum is NOT something babies should miss out on.
- Milk changes over the course of nursing. The milk produced for very young infants by Mom is different than that which would be supplied by a wet nurse who had hopefully weaned her own children already.
- Babies with food sensitivities would require a wet nurse willing to radically modify her diet.
- WHO PAYS?
Now, I think wet nursing or milk donation are great things in some situations. I am a milk donor myself. And I would love to see the day when EVERY infant could have breastmilk, because nursing was nearly universal and those that could not for whatever reason had access to donor milk. Where formula was a product for the extremely rare baby with the couple of rare genetic disorders that make breastmilk indigestible.
But wet nursing and pump and dump for chemicals that may or may not be in the breastmilk? That's really extreme...
-A
Book Tag
http://journeysofcactusjack.blogspot.com/
I read Sandra Steingraber's book *Having Faith* before getting pregnant with my daughter. I immediately stopped eating junk food, food with preservatives, colorants, growth hormones, and went off the Tylenol and what have you...
I often got the remark that it's too late anyway, that I and my milk are contaminated. But someone has to start breaking down that cycle!
Breastfeeding my daughter was an act of faith on my part, faith in my body and in the future. We are raising Amie "organically" and she will be stronger in turn, and *her* milk will be purer.
When you do such things out of faith in the future, it's simply time to cut out finding excuses in the past. So it is with how one eats, how much one consumes, and whether one breastfeeds one's children.
I want to add that my comment about faith in the future and excuses from the past only has to do with the oft-spoken excuse "it's too late anyway" when it comes to pollutants in BM.
I wasn't commenting on other reasons for not breastfeeding, many of which are understandable and anyway the mom's own business.
Just wanted to make that clear.
Homebody- :But wet nursing and pump and dump for chemicals that may or may not be in the breastmilk? That's really extreme..."
Nope, really didn't suggest that, and wouldn't. What I said was a woman whose milk TESTED TOO HIGH for the various toxins- which are not a joke, of any kind, might use this option.
The toxins in the milk are serious; don't blow off the idea because you're wedded to breast feeding; read the rest of my comments here.
A woman raised in a toxic environment stores the poisons for decades- and concentrates them in the breast milk; which is the ONLY way these toxins ever leave the body. And feeds them to an infant, which is at the most vulnerable point of its life, regarding damage from chemical insult. Your looking at greatly increasing the threat of cancer, later in life, for the child.
There's no doubt- for the majority of women; all this is NOT an issue of much, or any, importance. But for some, it is- and any other options would be important.
I just didn't find nursing erotic at all. The amount of touch I was getting from my newborn actually made me pretty touch-averse for a long time (also: c-section recovery & getting my body back after bed rest & recovery from the damage I took in pregnancy).
Other people have told me they find it erotic but it just made me not want anyone to touch my tits right at the moment my partner was *really* into them.
Also, I think the racial/class dynamics of wetnursing would be problematic. They certainly have been in the past.
We don't need upper-class women working more hours to make the money to rent a poorer woman's body. We need workplaces and lives that support family life, including breastfeeding.
One of my first jobs when I worked in the medical field was helping brand-new mom's nurse their newborns. Having been a part of such a touching, emotional moment in so many lives, I know, regardless of how children enter my life in the future, I will try my darnedest to exclusively nurse him/her/them.
As far as contaminants go - I grew up in what I consider to be a fairly benign environment (I think if there is any chemical at high levels in my system, it's chlorine - from being a swimmer for more than a decade), so I hope that what I will offer my child(ren) will be pure enough - like Kaat said, if I try to minimize the toxins I accumulate and the ones my children do, then my grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and so-forth will all be better off than I am...
Unless there is a radical change in energy usage, the environmental impact of large-scale farming, and our understanding of the (ever-changing) content of breast milk, I don't think I could choose formula as the "less polluted" option; although, if I didn't have an option - that is, if for whatever reason, I was unable to provide breast milk for my child(ren) - I would certainly provide formula for him/her/them.
As for the "sexualization of lactation" - this is where I could totally get on a soap box, so I'll try to rein it in... I think this issue is much deeper than a "nursing in public," or a mother choosing to feed breast milk or formula. I think this issue is inclusive of many other aspects of our "culture." I've noticed young girls', tweens', teens', and other women's clothing is becoming more and more risque as time goes on - it's actually somewhat challenging to find clothing that will not only meet, say, middle school dress code, and still look "cool" (Can you tell I've had to have the 'that skirt/shirt/those shorts are too short' conversation a few times?), BUT, that doesn't mean that the schools (or workplaces) need to revamp their dress codes! Just like most change, we need to be responsible for changing what is acceptable - a grassroots movement of acceptable dress. Okay, so that's a little drastic, but the point is that society is not going to change, we have to start the change. If women are being turned into sex objects by "fashion," then, it's hard to separate what is "fashion" (cleavage, lots of skin, etc.) and what is (for lack of a better word) "utilitarian" (an accidental public view of skin that's not normally shown). For that matter, if a woman is turned into a sex object by "fashion," and then chooses to nurse her child - does she have her roles mixed up?
Okay, I realize I'm not making a clear, concise point, but I think it's something to the extent that if women's breasts are going to be a fashion accessory, it's hard for people to see them used as something else, and for us to change that, we might have to help folks realize that they are as much of a fashion accessory as that stainless steel coffee tumbler I carry around.
--Erika
Ok, I'm denser than Greenpa - what are the sexual benefits of breastfeeding? My silence is because I have no freakin' idea what you are talking about.
As I said, I nursed for 8 straight years. Yes, my boobs got bigger - but since I was already a 40D before babies, going to a DD didn't really make me feel sexier. In fact, I remember calling up a friend and saying "Name two things on me that don't need to be any bigger! But they are!!" My husband didn't mind the size, but I'm just not sure that the increase from D to DD has the same effect as going, say, from A to B. One of those diminishing returns things.
As for the benefits in sex - can't think of any. Do you mean the part where I leaked milk during sex? Not one of my fetishes. I definitely did not want anyone sucking or grabbing at them during sex - when you pull them out and use them every 2 hours, the "Wow, someone else wants at my breasts" wasn't quite the thrill it might have been.
They were generally more sensitive, but not in a good way. I guess if my husband was into exhibitionism the fact that at the beginning, I nursed so constantly that I would forget to button my shirt might have been sexy, but I don't think that's his thing.
It wasn't a major hindrance to sex in the same way the baby was ;-), but I admit, I've never even thought of nursing has having sexual benefits.
So please, your Crunchness, explain it to me ;-)!
Sharon
I just think that the most important thing is a healthy mommy. Of course, we as mommies want to do the very best for our child. But if we DON'T have the support of our families or medical communities, then it can be quite challenging. Such was the case when my daughter was born and we lived in a rural area. I asked the local hospital if they had a lactation consultant? Nearest one was 1.5 hours away. I called La Leche League on the phone but got either cut off or they were not helpful in diagnosing my problem (ended up our baby had reflux, never diagnosed, only figured it out after baby #3 had same symptoms and he got diagnosed). So, I hope to help moms who need support breastfeeding but MORE than that I hope to support moms who need to feel sane. If breastfeeding is causing more mental anguish than not breastfeeding, I think a mom should not feel bad about nourishing her baby in the best way she can, and by "best" I mean the way that does not escalate any PPD that may be present or make her family life any more hectic than it is already.
Also, on a side note, I would SURE appreciate it if, while in public, moms who breastfeed did so discreetly. Breastfeed wherever ya want - in a restaurant, in the mall, whatever - but also realize some folks don't want to see it. You can still have your rights to breastfeed in public without being all in my face about it. BTW I have breastfed all of my kids. In public too.
Rosa: "Also, I think the racial/class dynamics of wetnursing would be problematic. They certainly have been in the past."
Absolutely; with you all the way. Which is why I tried to suggest "professional" wet nurses. To me that means- trained, licensed. And respected.
I think it could be done, though it's sure not a given. For one thing, the wetnurse phenomenon is so nearly extinct in our current world, it should be possible to start over from scratch.
I was thinking, hoping, it could be done in conjunction with the training and licensing of midwives and doulas. You wouldn't be expected to hire a wetnurse for convenience (we could even try to generate some scorn for that path)- but for medical necessity; the doctor could prescribe it, perhaps.
All culturally very risky- and history is against us. Nothing new there!
This was something I did indeed worry about extensively with my current youngster. Spice was raised in one of the most toxic places in the USA - mining waste, heavy metals, mostly. Unlike organic toxins, the metals can be flushed out without lactation, usually with chelating treatments. But- those companies are just utterly careless of everything they do to the world, and I'll bet anything the mine waste pools where she played as a kid are swimming with PCBs the companies dumped there, too.
No options, for us. But I'd like others to be able to KNOW- ahead of time; and act. If we'd had a wetnurse available at the time; I might well have tried to do that. Even if the wet nurse was only providing half the nursing, and Spice was still nursing the baby- that would cut the exposure to toxins for the baby in half. That could be all the difference.
So far, Smidgen is a very robust, healthy, active, fabulous child. But it's the nature of the organic chemicals that we're talking about that they cause genetic "booby-traps" to develop; a slightly damaged cell line, which with one more insult, at any time in the future, could mean cancer. This is the reason why damage to an infant is more serious; they're growing. An insult to an adult may mean damage to one cell. In a child- that one damaged cell will likely divide, and generate 10 cells; or 100, in the adult; all with the same damage now- a much bigger target.
I'll worry about- down deep- forever, like any parent would.
Um, incidentally, I did NOT discuss all this with Spice at the time. Why would I add to her worries? So, if she reads this, this will all be news to her that I was worrying.
Thank you so much for your comments about breastfeeding and it was really fun to read what everyone had to say. I love breastfeeding my 8-week old and make sure to do all that I can to keep the breastmilk as healthy as possible- clean with all-natural cleaners, don't drink or smoke, take my 100% natural supplements, including extra Omega Guard. Breastfeeding is great incentive for moms to be more careful and aware of their surroundings and how we are contributing to our environment.
Also, breastfeeding mothers need to be aware of all of the dangers of birth control for the baby!!!
I did nurse both of my girls until both were about a year old. I did not have much of a problem with it, I found it easy to start and wasn't the least bit embarrassed about it in public. There were a few times with my first that I had to white knuckle it until I found some nipple shields and unfortunately with both I suffered many months of yeast problems on my nipples. I would so highly encourage breast feeding if you can, there is just nothing like sitting there knowing that your body is making the nourishment for your beautiful child. Amazing.
I think I'm the only formula feeder here, and I must live in the breastfeeding capital of the us. Seriously, I got flack for not nursing -- to the point were I was told that if I'd breastfeed my younger daughter would not have congenital skull malformation and that neither child would bond with me. (In fact, it's always near the top of the Top 10 reasons why I'm a bad mother.)
My older daughter arrived home at 10.5 months. I looked into inducing, and discovered that having never been pg, the best I could hope for was a trickle of breast milk while most of the feed was formula from a tube tape to my breast. I was going back to work in 2 weeks time, and a lot of the feedings would have to be from a bottle anyway. So, I bailed.
The second came home at 22 months, still not having mastered suck and swallow, and was spoon fed formula and thinned food.
Part of me is very thankful there wsa formula for them to be fed after they were surrendered. Another part of me know that they are doomed to grow up to be axe murderers (of course, since I've always worked Monday nights, the fact we don't eat dinner together that night means they are doomed to be drug addicts, too.)
The funny thing is, I actually support breastfeeding, and have no problems with people feeding their children in public, or anywere else. Both my daughters used to pretent to breastfeed their dolls, having seem friends babies.
But for the 4-5% of women who really can't breastfeed, we could do with a bit more support and a bit less of "The most loving thing you'll ever do for your child." I also think that people who say NOTHING will stop me from breastfeeding are setting themselves up for a nasty case of self-hatred if, God forbid, something happens, such as them ending up in separate hospitals, their milk drying up, and then not being able to restart. They will be able to love their children; their children will love them, and my own fears aside, chances are they will not grow up unable to love or nurture their own children.
And at this point, there are so many bad chemical everywhere, you might was well get the benefits from breastfeeding.
MEA
Greenpa - Actually, I would ask you to do what you are asking me to do, read my entire comment.
You said, and I quote, "it would be easy for a professional wet-nurse to feed the newborn for a little while, while the real mother "pumps and dumps", to get the toxins cleared out. Then real mom could jump back in, and breast-feed, without the worries- or the toxins."
As I clearly pointed out in my post, THIS IS NOT ***EASY*** IN THE LEAST.
And how do you test by the way? I mean, we have had the ability to test milk for toxins, as well as fat/protein/carbs, for many many years. But what do you test? Foremilk? Hindmilk? Colostrum? The woman's fat stores? The woman's breast tissue? I could write an entire page about each of these things, and why testing them won't tell you how much chemical exposure the baby is getting.
You intentionally insult me by saying "The toxins in the milk are serious; don't blow off the idea because you're wedded to breast feeding; read the rest of my comments here." and yet you have not replied to a single one of the real, actual, and DIFFICULT problems your solution posses. And I only scratched the surface, I could go on for two or three pages as to why it just won't work.
I actually DO understand chemicals, toxins, epidemiology, lactation in humans and other mammals, and a whole bunch of other things. Is breastfeeding great? Yes it is. But don't mistake me for some dewy eyed idealist with nary a scientific thought in her head just because I think your solution is completely unworkable given the realities of chemicals, toxins, epidemiology, and lactation in humans. My problems with your solution are based on cold hard facts.
Oh, and by the way, a point in time test of woman's breastmilk tells you exactly NOTHING about whether or not she can nourish her baby. Even if you can get a sample.
-A
Pregnant with #2, still BF my 17mo old.
I read somewhere that the flame retardants used in children's pajamas is found in breastmilk..so I put my daughter to bed in sweatpants and long sleeves since birth. We did buy some Halo sleep sacks for last winter at the nifty thrifty hoping that the previous washings got most of it out.
Another concern of ours was the dioxins in diapers, so we use cloth as a back-up and have been ECing since 3 months. It is wonderful to not have a room of stinky diapers sitting around!
My mom always told me that if I didn't breastfeed my kids, she would. Unfortunately, she wasn't around when I had them because I might have taken her up on that offer. ;)
My first pregnancy was twins. Luckily, they were full-term and decent enough in size to start breastfeeding immediately. That first two weeks of learning proper latching and the like was EXCRUCIATING, but I don't think I ever considered quitting. I was never comfortable nursing them both at the same time, so that created a bit of mayhem with one hungry baby screaming while I was trying to feed the other. It did get better though. Unfortunately, my milk started to wane when they hit about 9 months. I continued to breastfeed but also had to supplement them with formula for a couple of weeks while I bumped up my milk production and nutrition. I bawled like a crazy woman the first time I stuck a bottle in my son's mouth, and I was infinitely relieved when I was able to put the bottles away for good. Both of the twins weaned themselves at around 13 months.
Baby #3 was a nursing pro right away. She lost interest in the breast at about 9 months, but still latched on here and there until around 13 months again. After that, she wanted absolutely nothing to do with the breast. Even though they'd been weaned for quite awhile, when the twins saw me breastfeeding their little sister, they each asked if they could nurse too. I let each of them take a turn at my free breast, and after a very brief suckle, they both looked disgusted and declared they would NOT be doing that again! From that point on, they referred to my breast milk as "icky milk." LOL
Baby #4 will be born in March/April, and, of course, the plan is to breastfeed.
Homebody: Bull.
Sorry you feel the exchange has become a bit rancorous- but if you don't like being "insulted" - perhaps you should avoid being insulting.
You do, indeed, have more science than I guessed. You have, however, much less than you need to be pontificating- and do not know it.
Don't feel too badly however; I've seen roomsful of MD's make identical mistakes; both in science, and in hubris.
Proof: "Oh, and by the way, a point in time test of woman's breastmilk tells you exactly NOTHING about whether or not she can nourish her baby. Even if you can get a sample."
Really? Is that why they take urine samples - at "a point in time"? And blood? Both fluids are every bit as variable as milk; in regard to circadian and many other rhythms. And yet- we have learned to gain valuable- even accurate- information that way. Lives are saved- repeatedly.
Your arguments are emotional. And exactly those of all people who oppose things that are new and different. It won't work because it's too hard, and can't be done.
Bull. Wet nurses have made a valuable contribution to child rearing for millennia, in many, if not all cultures. "difficult" for one, is lifesaving for another.
Look it up: historically, your objections are the same reasons backwards thinkers gave for why testing urine was a waste of time, and would never be widely instituted.
I'm a breastfeeding mommy and we had a difficult time in the beginning. However, I stuck with it and breastfed exclusively until 6 months and am still bfing him at 16 months. In addition to the health benefits, bfing also leads to less (or no) packaging waste and is an unbelievable money saver. I do think that the lack of support is the main reason women choose formula over breastfeeding.
Greenpa -
Ah, yes. I forgot that if I want to avoid being insulted I should only argue with folks that argue the facts, and avoid those who resort to ad hominem type attacks. But I had no idea when I started which type you were, so there you go.
So, if I know so very little, why is it you won't argue the facts with me, eh? You have not even answered the very very easiest of my questions, which is what do you sample? Foremilk? Hindmilk? Colostrum? At what point in time? This is a very basic question, and the entire solution you propose, and how it (won't) work depends on the answer.
If you want to learn about lactation (which is where I think you biggest lack of knowledge and education is in this) may I suggest "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" published by La Leche League or "The Breastfeeding Book" by Martha & William Sears. Both will give you a basic working knowledge of lactation. Reading through the Kellymom.com site might also help you learn about the very basics of lactation.
Oh, and please don't compare lactation to pissing in a cup. I realize you are working from a lack of knowledge here, but the complex variations in breastmilk composition over the course of a single nursing session are orders of magnitude above the simple dilution factor you have in urine samples. And what does other people being wrong about urine have to do with my being right about breastmilk?
I actually don't have any issues with wet nursing, and I am a milk donor, both formal and informal. I DON'T have a problem with milk sharing. I DO have a problem with folks that have absolutely no clue how a system works trying to 'fix' things. More often than not you just end up screwing things up even more.
-A
PS: By the way, bull has nothing to do with lactation, other than donating the semen. It's the cows that give the milk. :D
I'm brestfeeding my 30 month-old daughter.
Crunchy, the device (tube feeding) can be used with adopted babies... very useful.
I've exclusively breastfeed my year old son and he shows no signs of slowing down. I hope I get the opportunity to tandem nurse. I love breastfeeding and I count my lucky stars that I was able to.
About nursing in public, I believe that a woman should be able to nurse however she wants to, even if it's not discreet. And this ties into the sexualization of breasts.
Quite frankly I've never found breasts to be that sexy. Yeah, they look good and they're fun to squeeze, but as far as being so sexual as to not be used is stupid. My legs are sexy, yet I use them to walk. My tush is pretty cute, but it's also nice to sit on. Why should I not use my breasts?
Luckily I have a stupendous husband who is so supportive of breastfeeding. He's never been jealous or mean about, and is actually super excited about the whole thing. He actually gets disappointed if he can't be there to defend my public nursing. And he's totally chill with extended nursing and co-sleeping. I think he has a future helping other fathers with their role in life.
There, Crunchy, I talked about sex and breasts.
I BF all four of my kids, and all lost interest in nursing right around their first birthdays. I don't recall actually weaning any of them. I never had two nursing at the same time, not because of any decision on my part, that's just how it worked out.
I remember having lots of women tell me they would never be able to put up with the "inconvenience" of nursing. It still makes me laugh to think of it; so inconvenient to have the milk always ready, always clean, always the right temperature, always the right amount.
I always nursed my babies where ever I happened to be when they were ready. I was bashful about it in the beginning, but I always felt that part of what I wanted to accomplish, in addition to addressing my children's welfare, was to try and help people to understand that is, after all, what those breasts are there for-not they don't have other, more, shall we say, recreational uses in addition. While I never tried to be "in your face" about it, I figured anyone else's discomfort was their problem to deal with. I often have to put up with all kinds of public behavior that I'd rather not see, and none of that serves a purpose as important as feeding a baby.
Looking back, I'm kind of amazed that I was never asked to stop. I've known several women who have had that happen to them.
I've also known several women who would have BF but were discouraged from even trying by their husbands. I am very glad my husband was so supportive. I think you can stand up better to disapproval from extended family and society if you have the father's support, but it becomes very nearly impossible without it.
And finally, I will admit that although nursing did nothing to my libido one way or the other, my husband LOVED to see me breastfeeding the kids. He couldn't wait to take them to their crib as soon as their meal was over.
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